Happy Friday, everyone!
We first broached this topic nearly five years ago, and in view of a recent post by RSC member Collin Whitehouse, we thought it worth revisiting this week:
Who owns the radio ad -- the advertiser or the radio station that produced it? What is your station's policy?
Looking forward to reading your replies!
at February 7, 2019 10:29 PM PST
The radio station that produced it. If the client wants to run it on other stations they pay a fee... So that we can pay the talent additional rights. If they want to buy the rights to use where ever then we can sit down and work it out.
It is always owned by the customer! Just like the announcer doesn't own it either.
The announcer rents his voice to the ad, for a limited period on specified stations. At least that's how it works in UK and Kenya..... so it's not ALWAYS owned by the customer.
Also, would then the client be OK to use their radio ad for the soundtrack of their Superbowl commercial? I cant see the voice talent letting that go without a lawsuit.
As a rule the station does, but that rule is flexed from time to time.
The station owns the voice. Generally if the client wants the spot to
air on a competitor we provide the copy.
Roger Douglas
WNIR 100.1 Fm "The talk of Akron"
It has been my understanding that the station runs the clients commercials. Talent is separate and can be free to the client or a fee is charged for talent. The station may have a policy to not have a competitors talent on their station. It is the decision of the client who the talent is and what is said, not the stations. Other wise if the ad is some how fraudulent is the station the owner of a fraudulent ad, and thusly responsible? so I feel the spot is the clients he just rents the air time on our station.
i guess in US your voice talent are employees of the station?
we tend to use hired in voice actors. who charge based on the stations being broadcast on.... so we rent the voices.
The station that produced it owns it. The advertiser definitely does not own it unless the advertiser does a buy out.
If an advertiser wants to use it elsewhere, he pays a talent fee for each of the people involved in creating it--the writer, the producer and the voices.
To let an advertiser simply walk away with that spot is not only bad business, it's a slap in the face to the talent who created it.
Right on Joel! The account list is the biggest most important asset the station owns. As a matter fact, every monday at 7:15 am I have a meeting with all my managers to go over the reports from our CRM software and we call it the "Asset Management Meeting" (AMM) I LOSE IT WHEN A SALES PERSON SAYS TO ME, "I HAVE A CLIENT". No you don't.
Our station policy:
Once an ad runs on any of our stations, even once, it belongs to the customer.
We do not charge if it runs elsewhere. We don't hire any "talent" that has any rights to anything they produce for us. I have heard of stations that say they can only run an ad on their stations, or pay a fee. My question then becomes "are you working for your customer or not?". Make it hard to do business with you and they will find people it is easier to do business with.
The station may own the commercial, but the advertiser is paying for it. As a client buying advertising I would be very upset if the station wanted to charge me for a copy of a commercial for my business to run on another station.. You people need to answer the telephone at the typical business for one day. You will be surprised at the number of calls we get wanting to sell us advertising. I'm not even going to mention email and snail mail solicitations. Everybody claims they have the perfect medium to increase our business and save us so much money. I could retire on the amount of money advertising sales people claim they can save me. The typical business is bombarded by Newspapers, TV stations, Radio Stations, Internet sites and God knows what else. And if you are foolish enough to buy a commercial on the typical radio station, it will usually run after the station's promotion spot in the middle of 7 or more other commercials. The way some stations promote commercial free hours or time periods, I'm surprised you people want to clutter up your precious air time to run a commercial. And now you are saying you are going to charge me for a copy of my ad? I don't think so. There are too many ways to advertise.
It must be the clients. if they have paid for the product to be produced and aired and have the right to remove and/or stop payment, control the content, own the results… its their vehicle. Does a sign company own your companies sign?
We don't charge for writing, VO or production. We allow (and even encourage) our clients to use an ad we create IN OUR MARKET. If they want to use it OUTSIDE the market, they have to pay fee for the talent and production.
Along with that, we don't let our staff voice commercials for any other medium in our market, but we do allow them to find VO work outside the market. We own rights to their voice locally while they're employed here (and any ad they voice while they're employed here); they own it anywhere else.
We've received the following replies via our Facebook page:
My question would be, do you value your Creative and the production so little that you attach no value to it?
I own what I write and voice. To be sure, I put my name and a © bug on it. There is nothing worse that driving down the street listening to a spot you spent the weekend on, badly voiced by some rock jock on another station.
(Sorry rock jocks, anybody else who reads my copy earns my ire.)
In a competitive environment, you never want to do anything to run business away. The customer paid for the production somewhere in the price. Personally, if my client is running on more than one station I WANT to be the one producing every ad. It's better for the customer and I want to be the one media source they cannot live without.
For our members' convenience, here are the replies we received when the question was originally broached:
In my experience, the spot belongs to the client. (One of my lifelong complaints: clients should pay for spot production. They pay in every other media.)
The fact that they're using one of your spots on other stations may be a good calling card--remind the client that your station produced it and you could help them craft something new. And of course, include you in their next buy.
- Cole Portato
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When I have partners/clients that want to run our spots on other stations, we usually charge production and creative fees. Something that has been done in the past as well, when a spot is sent to the client, or even a spec spot sent to a prospect, sometimes a water mark (a faint sound in the background like a horn) is inserted so it can't be used on other stations. Hope this helps.
- Jon Chisolm
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If you did not specifically charge the client for writing and producing the ad; it belongs to the station; all the client bought was the AIRTIME!
Anytime you provide a script and/or audio of an ad to a client, you should label it something like "Creative Property of WXYZ Radio"; or "For exclusive use on WXYZ Radio".
Watermarking the ad in some way so it cannot be used on another station is not a bad idea. Our announcers all have recognizabe voices, so we don't mind a bit if our Production airs on other stations; and it often does; even on our local tv stations. We do expect the client or stations to ask first, however.
We absolutely, positiely do NOT give agencies a discount when they send us the creative. They are already being overpaid by the client to produce the ad; why pay them again with a discount? It doesn't make sense, and is a BAD precedent to set.
Charging the client for copywriting and production is also not a bad idea; but either we ALL do it or we won't be able to make it stick. In the past; we have charged other stations whenever we sent them a tape, but then they would return the favor and the bookkkeeping was more trouble than it was worth.
- Joel A. Swanson
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I was always under the impression the Client owns the spot. However, if another radio station wants to use the commercial, a fee can be charged to the voice talent. Usually if they are buying from you and then it is being sent to other stations it is not charged. However if the other radio station has sold the commercial, they are the ones that should pay for the commercial. However, if the person who produced the commercial has already been paid, then surely it then belongs to the client as they paid for it? Perhaps a person with legal experience can help with the legal side of this issue. Sorry I can't be more helpful.
- Sheila Jensen
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Let me start out saying I am not a lawyer, but my FCC attorney tells me that anything we produce that runs on our station is automatically copyrighted and owned by us. If any of the music on the spot is part of a Production Library that we have leased or purchased, technically that material can only be used on our station unless there is some verbage in the lease agreement that allows otherwise, or unless the material was purchased as a "buy out" of a library, and then we would own the rights and can do anything with that music that we wish to do.
We have had a long term policy that states that when a client asks us to produce a spot for them, we'll do it as part of our service, and we'll provide them with dubs for other stations, so long as there is a buy on our station. If we're just doing the Production with no buy on our station, there is a studio charge, a talent charge and a dub/distribution charge for each copy that goes out to another station or media. The intent is that if they want to use our talent/Production on other stations/mdia, they pay us one way or the other.
In big markets where AFTRA is involved and the market's talent is unionized there are specific rules and costs for all of this stuff. You probably don't need to be that formal in your market, but establishing a policy for handling this type of thing is probably a good idea, and protecting your Production and Talent from their hard work being used for free is always a good idea that will keep them interested in doing quality work for you.
- Hal Widsten
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Our stations charge a flat fee of $100 if the client wants to take a spot that we produced and run it with other stations. That $100 is a one time fee and goes directly to the talent who voiced the spot.
- Todd Morton
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Tough call, probably one for an attorney..BUT this is what we have seen a number of stations do. They will put right on their proposal that the spot is property of the station until the client purchases the schedule. And yes, in many cases, the better the spot, the greater the investment for the schedule
- Mark Levy
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Our company policy for Radioo, Internet and print (in the old days) has been the same. Once the ad starts the first schedule with us, the ad belongs to the customer. I don't care what they do with it. I care about RADIO WORKING... not some alleged intellectual property concerns.
One other note: Make sure your emplyee manual lets everyone know that work product of announcers belongs to the stations to do with as they please and that the stations retain all rights to the writing, voice talent etc..
- Chris Rolando
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I have to agree with you Chris. I understand what every one is saying about intellectual property, but for me, it boils down to this. When I have the opportunity spend precious time with my client, I can choose to spend that time explaining why he can't run our ad on our competition. I would also have to explain why it's our ad and not his ad even though he thinks its his ad. I might even spend some time telling him if he wants to use our ad like that he's going to have to pay extra. Or, I can talk to him about his next promotion, what problems or oppotunities he is confronting, and how he can take adantage of them by advertising on my station. HMMMMM, seems like a tough choice, but I think I will take the latter.
- Mark A. Waddington
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I agree with Mark Levy......... this is ultimately a question of intellectual property. In general, intellectual property laws suggest that ownership defaults to the creator. (stations..ect) There are also little quirks about who produced the ad. (example; union house, agency, so on). I can think of only a very few instances where I would play the ownership card with client.
- George Feola
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Remember the client "is paying us money".......the ad is the client's.
- Jeffrey C. Wilson
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Did the client pay you money to write and produce the ad; or did the client just buy the air time from you? If the latter, the ad remains the creative property of the station. Setting any other precedent makes no sense!
- Joel A. Swanson
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For the most part in our area stations are willing to share ads for clients. I did have one incident a few years ago, I wrote a series of ads for a campaign for a pool company and put them on a cd with no disclaimer that these ads were just samples or the property of a certain station, took to the clients, just knew he was going to buy. He did not a few a weeks later, I called and the ads were on the hold system of his phone. Last time I took out ads with no disclaimer of some sort. That taught me a valuable lesson, the customer is not sold until his name is on the line!!!
- Lisa Mollett
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Good question. As our stations develope better web pages, the ability to run video becomes a sales "added Value" (how I hate that term).. Our local cable company (Cable One) is very aggressive and cheap. That is until the client pays the productions costs. I would think if they paid for it, they own it. We live in an area that is 50% satelitte and has OTA translators from Phoenix stations. Free TV is still here and because the translators stayed analog, the old sets still work. I would think the client who buys cable, would like the idea of reaching those who are not on the cable. Also is a chance to point out how many viewers they miss because half the market is on the bird. Hummmmmmm As far as our production. It depends on how much it cost us to produce it. We have on air people, but they do not voice ads, because they all do agency work, And I don't think it's fair ask them to do an ad they would normally get $100 for. . Therefore we import cold reads and I produce it locally. We are not bound by the "bird" so if our ads run 65 seconds. so what. Better to get results than worry about 5 seconds.
- Bill Taylor
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I envy your ability to create commercials without being "bound by the bird," Bill.
I remember those days. We created a lot of 5-second and 10-second campaigns, and never had to worry about a 33-second thirty or a 57-second sixty. Long gone, but not forgotten.
- Rod Schwartz
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"Who Owns the Spot?" is one of the first questions I was asked by the attorney that we (my advertising client and I jointly) hired to research an unusual situation. It's not as cut-and-dried as one might suppose - as evidenced by the diversity of opinions posted here in response to the question.
You may find this story to be of interest.
In 2003, I created a commercial for my client, Keeney Bros. Music Centers, entitled "Dreaming." It ended with this hook: "Stop Dreaming. Start Playing." The spot generated quite a bit of buzz locally, motivating me to enter it into the 2004 Radio-Mercury Awards. It was the first time I'd ever entered any of my work in competition; to my surprise it ended up winning the the station-produced category, resulting in national exposure for the commercial and its slogan.
That commercial anchored the whole campaign, with subsequent commercials all ending with the same tagline: "Stop Dreaming. Start Playing."
After a year or so of running exclusively on my stations, the client sought permission to use the spot(s) on competing stations. Respectful of the time and talent invested in the creation of these commercials and not wanting to jeopardize in any way our profitable working relationship, we agreed on a modest licensing fee and made the commercials available to other stations on which the client wanted to run them.
Fast-forward to the summer of 2007. The client tells me that the Fender Instrument Company has "stolen" our slogan and is using it to sell their own guitar packages. We have no idea how this came about, but it seems unlikely that it was merely a coincidence.
Now this is flattering from one point of view: Fender. Using our slogan. Wow! But my client isn't a Fender dealer, and we're both thinking that this amounts to, well, taking our property - mine as the creator of the material and his as the advertiser - and using it without our consent. (Incidentally, by this time the phrase "Stop Dreaming. Start Playing" has been published on his website, printed on t-shirts, posters, used in print ads, etc., as Keeney Bros. Music Center's tagline or slogan.)
So, what should we do? Call Fender and ask them to stop? Maybe get them to pay us something for the use of our slogan? Would they even listen to us? Maybe we should hire an attorney instead, to contact them in our behalf....
Finally, we agreed to split the cost of hiring an attorney to investigate our claims and to draft a "cease-and-desist" letter to Fender. Long-story-short: we're told that because Fender is a huge billion-dollar global gorilla with formidable resources at its disposal, we're not in a position to take them to task.
So, we content ourselves knowing Fender thought our slogan worthy of their use and we move on.
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Here's where you separate legal from practical.
Legally you own the spot, unless the client has paid for your services. Practically, if you want to continue to do business with that client, forget about who owns it. Remember, that client has pals that also advertise and how do you want to be known?
Our job in Radio is to get results for clients and to be know as the station that gets results. We must remember that like in any business, customer service is paramount. Give great service, get results and don't worry about who owns the spot, that's not why we are in broadcasting.
Now if you want to to get tough, you can charge however, you might lose that client in future buys, unless you are the only station in the market. Remember, any station can be bought around.
- Alan Rock
This is one of those things that we are eager to argue about, like rate integrity, but makes little difference in getting the job done for the client. Logically, if the client paid for the production it's the property of the client. Practically, if not priced separately, the cost of production is included in the cost of the ad. Realistically, if the client did not pay separately for production and we only sold them air time, the value of the production is zero.
Keep it simple with one question every time: If we do this, is it going to enhance my relationship with this client and lead to more business?
well said
Joel,
The common denominator in your reply seems to be "on station time," which one would infer to be regular working hours for which the person is paid a salary or hourly wage.
But what would be the case if the "Marketing Specialist/Copywriter" worked on the commercial on his or her own time? Would you allow that person to charge for this work?
Rick,
Presumably you would not lose it if that salesperson said, "I'm calling on a client" or "I'm working with a client."
Thinking of an advertiser as "my client," in view of the salesperson's investment of time, effort, talent, etc. in that client's success (and by extension, his/her own) surely doesn't seem worth risking a coronary.
Even if it's not technically a proprietary interest, as an expression of personal investment it seems both natural and admirable.
You're on to something here Rod. As long as the salesperson is working with the client and not merely "claiming" the client you're absolutely right.
An excellent question, Jack.
"More business" is always the desired result, whether it's additional dollars or another renewal. It's a privilege earned by those who consistently strive to maximize the advertiser's return on his investment.
Sometimes this can be done using only the free copy writing and production services provided by the station. But other times, the client finds it advantageous to make an extraordinary investment to get something more: a jingle or custom music, better writing, unique voice talent, etc. The investment is repaid when his advertising works even better as a result.
To the extent that the radio salesperson is instrumental in helping the client in this area, their relationship is enhanced and will likely lead to more business.
